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| Top#2 - Cool Figure - 2 Pics http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5714 |
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| Author: | GregG [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:09 am ] |
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I found some interesting figure in this top, thought I would share a couple of pics with you all. I've never seen this type of curl in spruce before....well, except in the first piece I used off of this same billet. Anyway, pretty exciting stuff to me! This piece is unfinished, I wonder if the curl will be even more pronounced with some shellac on it? Greg 
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| Author: | RussellR [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:14 am ] |
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Hi Greg They are called Medullary rays or sometimes known as silking, they are a very good sign as they mean the top was cut very close to the quarter and they add cross grain stiffness, most high grade tops have them. |
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| Author: | Kim [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:38 pm ] |
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Very nice look'in top and that is unique curl, luv the rosette to. Who supplied the billet? Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:17 pm ] |
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Nice, is it Adi spruce ? Lutz ? |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:27 pm ] |
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I promise you Hesh that you won't regret it, it's really beautiful for tops |
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| Author: | Scott Thompson [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:02 pm ] |
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I had to blow it up so I could see what you were talking about. Very cool stuff! 
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:05 pm ] |
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Whew hew! Really nice curl! |
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| Author: | RCoates [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:51 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Scott Thompson] I had to blow it up so I could see what you were talking about. Very cool stuff! [/QUOTE]
Wow! That is great looking wood. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:06 pm ] |
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I have some bearclaw sitka spruce that exhibits the exact same type of grain... I can't wait to put a finish on it! |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:46 pm ] |
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I was under the impression that the medulliary rays were the curl kinda figure seen in quartersawn. This appears to be a visible grain pattern and not the ray figuring. Are they one in the same? My current top has of bit of each. -j. |
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| Author: | GregG [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:32 pm ] |
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I'm glad someone knew how to revise my picture so the curl showed up. I'm not sure of the exact species, I've heard it is a cross between Sitka, Engleman, and White Spruce, but I'm not really sure to tell you the truth. I bought the billet off of ebay from Mario, the man who started the other Luthier Forum that is sometimes mentioned here. I've actually got about 20 more tops like this one, at least I think I do. This seems to be really stiff spruce with nice tone, but I've never tried anything else so I'm not sure how it stacks up to the other stuff really....I would like to try some of that Carpathian or Adi. some day, just to see the difference. Thanks for looking ! Greg |
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| Author: | Colonial Tonwds [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:04 am ] |
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That's called ray fleck. |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:30 am ] |
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Steve Are Ray Fleck, and Medullary rays the same thing ? |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:34 am ] |
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Hi Greg, That top will be Lutz Spruce, Mario and I work in the same area. That top looks VERY nice! The hybrid is really only Sitka and White Spruce. Engelmann won't come into the mix until the trees are about 3500 feet in elevation. Mario harests primarily from one watershed and it is at about 1300 feet in elevation. Shane |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:38 am ] |
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Hi Shane, glad you made it safe back home, i was starting to miss ya bud! 
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| Author: | Larry Davis [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:29 am ] |
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[QUOTE=j.Brown] I was under the impression that the medulliary rays were the curl kinda figure seen in quartersawn. This appears to be a visible grain pattern and not the ray figuring. Are they one in the same? My current top has of bit of each. -j.[/QUOTE] Medullary Rays (ray fleck, pith flecks, medullary fleck, medullary spots, pith flecks are some figure names) shouldn't be confused with the undulating grain that causes curl figure. Medullary rays form across growth rings and run pith to bark in direction. Medullary rays allow sap to move radially. The prettiest ray fleck I've seen is in Keyaki, a member of the elm family. Here's a photo from a Keyaki guitar side piece. 
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| Author: | GregG [ Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:11 am ] |
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Shane, What the heck is Lutz Spruce anyway? Greg |
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| Author: | tl507362 [ Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:42 am ] |
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For those who don't know the english name of Keyaki, it is the Japanese Grey Bark Elm. Japanese use this tree for Bonsai. Very beautiful tree that can be very big. I didn't know it was used for guitars. Hmmm, learn something new everyday! Tracy |
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| Author: | McCollum [ Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:03 am ] |
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Greg, notice that the figure is around the sound hole? Thats because you sanded the rosette and went through the different layers of silking or flek.Thats why you have a pattern. Lance |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:27 am ] |
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[QUOTE=tl507362] For those who don't know the english name of Keyaki, it is the Japanese Grey Bark Elm. Japanese use this tree for Bonsai. Very beautiful tree that can be very big. I didn't know it was used for guitars. Hmmm, learn something new everyday! Tracy[/QUOTE] Grey Bark Elm is actually a member of the Zelkovia genus related to, but not a true Elm. Indeed it is used in Bonsai (another of my hobbies) this one was at an exhibition in Tokyo where I went with a good friend of mine Prof Susumu Takigachi the Professor of Aesthetics at Tokyo University. What a great job, thinking about beauty! His definition, Beauty is something that lifts the spirit. 
Colin |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:28 am ] |
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Hey Greg, Lutz is just another of the many Spruce sub-species, but it is restricted in growth to a relatively small area of the coast mountain range of Northern British Columbia and South East Alaska. This spruce 'Picea lutzii', is a Sitka hybrid, typically with white spruce, as in the case in my area for the large trees that I (and Mario) harvest but will include Engelmann in the mix on the east side of the coastal range and at higher elevations where I am (more on the western side of the coastal range). So this spruce typically displays properties associated with both Sitka and with white/engelmann. Hope that helps! Shane |
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| Author: | Scott Thompson [ Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:15 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Shane Neifer] ...will include Engelmann in the mix on the east side of the coastal range and at higher elevations where I am (more on the western side of the coastal range).Shane[/QUOTE] Shane, is the stuff with Engelman in the mix available anywhere as tonewood? |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:22 am ] |
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Hi Scott, I don't know of anybody that harvests it for tonewood but I do know that some of the logs do get into the tonewood market. It would be intermittenet though and those that bought the logs, likely in Vancouver, wouldn't know where they came from and would probably buy them as Sitka. There is very little difference, probably undectibly so, between white spruce and engelmann spruce. Larry Stamm and I have discussed this stuff quite a bit. He feels that all of the engelmann that is harvested, the larger stuff anyway, is hybridized with white spruce. Don't know if I answered your question but hope there is something here that helps! Shane |
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